Pearl Jam's Anti-Career
Next up for the band? A reggae album. Just kidding - maybe.
By Gil Kaufman

NEW YORK  This is the story about a band that has done most of the things
big rock bands aren't supposed to - a band that reached the top then
searched for a way to "raise the stakes to bring them down," as singer Eddie
Vedder shouts in the song "Grievance," from the new album.
When, during the interview, I refer to Pearl Jam's decade-long tenure as an
"anti-career" and cite the above line from "Grievance" as an unofficial
motto, Vedder smiles and twists his red-white-and-blue wristband. "Taken out
of context," he says, "that works."

On five multiplatinum studio albums, the band has explored faith, love
confusion and devotion with increasingly textured and intricate music. The
group has built the kind of career few of their rock peers have been able to
sustain. And what they've finally got is what any 30-ish rocker brought up
on a steady diet of the Who, Rolling Stones and '70s rock would give their
strumming hand to have: Neil Young's career. Which means that - as with
their musical hero and occasional collaborator Young, whose fans are willing
to follow him from noisy garage rock to folk and back - the usual rules
don't apply to Pearl Jam anymore.

"It seems like we've got some open ocean in front of us in terms of where we
can go," Gossard, 33, says. "Now we just wanna sail a bit." The band has
navigated some choppy waters in the past - from battling Ticketmaster over
what Pearl Jam alleged to be that company's exorbitant service charges to
unwelcome intrusions into their private lives.

On a bright April afternoon in New York, Vedder (who has done relatively
little U.S. press during the past five years) and Gossard sit for a rare
interview. Vedder, 36, wears his blond-streaked, brown hair shoulder-length
and sports worn skateboarding sneakers, jeans, a blue hooded sweatshirt and
a car mechanic jacket. Dressed in black, Gossard's wire-frame glasses lend
him a professorial air. Vedder plays the gracious host, moving a flower
arrangement that was blocking a clear view of Gossard, and jokingly offering
to hold the conversation on the king-sized bed in the style of late Beatle
John Lennon and wife Yoko Ono's 1969 "Bed-In" interviews.

The pair hold court in an all-white suite at the chic Mercer Hotel in Soho.
They share a couch, a pack of American Spirits and the secret to succeeding
in rock 'n' roll and having your fans still respect you in the morning.

The 'Anti-Career'

"All of us have pretty diverse likes in music, so we've always wanted to be
more than just a rock band." - Stone Gossard
How successful have Pearl Jam been at maintaining their anti-career?

Consider this: The group recorded a cover of J. Frank Wilson and the
Cavaliers' 1964 soul-stirring hit "Last Kiss" during a soundcheck in 1999
and sent it to fan club members as the annual Christmas freebie. The
recording was never intended to be heard on the radio or sold. But within a
few months radio programmers across the U.S. picked up on the song's
infectious retro-rock vibe and "Last Kiss" began topping playlists. It also
became the biggest radio hit Pearl Jam has had. Ever. Bigger than "Alive,"
bigger than "Jeremy." It hit #2 on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart and
sold a half-million copies. The track and B-side, a cover of Arthur
Alexander's "Soldier of Love," appear on the all-star No Boundaries
compilation, which raised millions for relief efforts in war-torn Kosovo.
Even taking into account the band's stature and the fact that they'd
released no new singles that year, the incredible success of the song was
still surprising.

How did the band react to the unexpected hit?

"Best thing that ever happened to us!" Gossard says. "That's the kind of
thing that proves you over and over again. You just don't know why people
respond to a song. And certainly throwing money at it doesn't necessarily
have anything to do with why people suddenly respond to it." Proof of the
"power of music," he says.

Vedder calls the song an "absolute gift." "You didn't know what the
marketplace was and you didn't know how to digest any of that," he says. "It
just reaffirmed the fact that you don't have to think about it and that a
soundcheck record can do well."

Gossard boasts that they spent maybe $1,000 recording "Last Kiss."
Vedder disagrees, suggesting that Gossard has grossly overstated the costs.
"At the most," Gossard responds.
"That's including the printing of the vinyl, right?" Vedder shoots back with
a look of incredulity. "That's a DAT of the soundcheck; probably cost
$4.50," he says.
"Well, to mix it," Gossard reminds him.
"We had to mix it?"
"Yeah, we mixed it for a day at a studio and it only cost $1,000."
The exchange ends with Vedder making a comment to the effect that the
catering bill probably ate up most of that $1,000.

'You Sold Out With The Ukulele'

After introducing world-music vibes on their previous two studio albums,
Pearl Jam have raised the stakes again on Binaural, Vedder says. The 13
tracks trace fractured lives, dead-ends and the redeeming qualities of
imperfect love.

>From the blistering punk opener "Breakerfall" to the dramatic sweep of the
viola and cello-aided closer, "Parting Ways," the songs are a collaborative
effort, with each member taking a stab at writing. Former Soundgarden
drummer Matt Cameron checks in with the post-punk tune "Evacuation," with
lyrics contributed by Vedder, while bassist Jeff Ament wrote music and
lyrics for the moody first single, "Nothing As It Seems," and the fragile
folk-rocker "Thin Air." Gossard's spectral "Of the Girl" is matched in tone
by Ament's dark world-music rocker "Sleight of Hand." Guitarist Mike
McCready co-wrote the music to "Light Years."

Sonicnet: Your past two albums had a lot of experimental songs, but this one
seems more stripped down. The first couple of songs sound like they could've
been on Ten.

Vedder: I think in our bag of music, in our bag of whatever's been formed
from past influences to current experience, you're gonna reach in and
there's going to be similar-sounding things to some of what you've done
before. I think we've grown as music writers and [have benefited from]
having Matt [Cameron] in the band, and being able to take advantage of
someone who can grasp an intricate drum change in 15 seconds and play it
solid every time.

You're able to grow, and I think we did that. The nice thing about the first
record - we didn't know it was going to be heard. But after it was, it was
nice that there were things like "Release" and "Deep" that cover a bunch of
different moods. We were able to keep our musical landscape fairly open. I
think we've always taken advantage of that. I don't think [the new album is]
that much different in that way. That way you can put a song ["Soon Forget"]
with a ukulele and a voice on there and it doesn't cause too much of a
commotion.

Sonicnet: You've set yourself up, especially after Yield and No Code, where
there aren't any rules that you have to follow. You can do a song that's
percussion-heavy, a raga thing, or you can do a ukulele song.

"Love's an important subject, and you shouldn't be stuck with just one song
on it." - Eddie Vedder
Gossard: No one's gonna bat an eye. People are going to say, "Hey, this is a
real straight-ahead record," as opposed to if Metallica did a ukulele song,
they'd go, "Whoa, you guys are stepping out into new territory there."

Vedder: "And it sucks! You sold out with the ukulele!"

Gossard: All of us have pretty diverse likes in music, so we've always
wanted to be more than just a rock band. All of our favorite bands have had
a multidimensional quality to them.

Sonicnet: Like what types of bands?

Gossard: The Who, the Rolling Stones, the Beatles, Led Zeppelin. Maybe less
the Rolling Stones.

Sonicnet: This is the first time you've worked with [producer] Tchad Blake.
Do you think there was anything he helped bring out that was different from
what [longtime producer] Brendan [O'Brien?] contributed?

Gossard: Yeah, definitely! Tchad is a guy that came in with a whole new and
different appreciation to the band than what we were used to. He was a very
patient producer who let us work on stuff that maybe wasn't even necessarily
a song he thought might make the record. He was just there for us the whole
time, wanting us to create different moods. He makes great-sounding records.

Sonicnet: "Evacuation" has this post-punk, Wire type of feel. Your vocal
especially - it's totally unhinged. At first it sounds like the lyric and
vocals are about a guy running away from something, but on second listen it
seemed like he was running toward something.

Vedder: Matt wrote it, and there's a lot of momentum in it. I couldn't sit
down and write to it, so that was when I'd take it in the car and just go
for drives - the open road thing. So it felt like I was evacuating. The
theory behind the song, which I've probably done four times already, is
getting out of a situation. "Rearviewmirror" might be the same song. But
it's time to make a change - it's a song about change.

Sonicnet: It's interesting that you say you've written that song four times
because I was listening to this new Neil Young record [Silver and Gold] ...
and he somehow finds a way to make some of his usual tropes, like love, not
feel old or repetitive. Is that an inspiration to you?

Vedder: Love's an important subject, and you shouldn't be stuck with just
one song on it. He's the king of readdressing love, how it grows ...

Sonicnet: There are quite a few love songs on your album that don't
necessarily sound like love songs. I'm thinking of "Thin Air." For the most
part, it's this beautiful song about deep love, but then there's this line
in the second verse where you say, "When I feel I may do harm to her. ... "
Where does that line fit into a song about a deep connection between two
people?

Gossard: I think the stronger your connection with someone, the more chances
you can really hurt them. I think that's the key to that. You put yourself
into a situation where something really means something to you, and if you
lose that situation, it can really be painful.

Vedder: I appreciated the fact that it was a song about new love. I couldn't
have written that song.

Sonicnet: Why is that?

Vedder: Because my love is actually really very, very old. It's on a whole
other spectrum.

Sonicnet: Because you've known [wife] Beth [Liebling] since high school?

Vedder: Seventeen years. So, to hear this one, and know that that stuff is
true ... I responded to the apprehension that was in there. I thought it was
beautiful.

Running Off The Edge Of The Cliff

Pearl Jam's debut album Ten (1991) has sold more than 10 million copies,
while their sophomore album, 1993's Vs., has sold just more than 6 million
(without the aid of the glitzy videos that usually accompany such huge
successes). Vitalogy debuted at #1 on the Billboard charts with sales
exceeding 870,000 during its first week. But rather than embrace their
superstardom, Pearl Jam reacted to their success by rebelling against it. In
1994, the band waged a public campaign against Ticketmaster, decrying what
they considered to be that organization's exorbitant service fees. That
summer, the tour in support of Vs. was scrapped when the band was unable to
find enough non-Ticketmaster venues to play.

The band's decision to retreat from the public spotlight has earned them the
respect of many of their fellow artists. Vedder friend and
sometime-collaborator Joey Ramone said he finds Pearl Jam's unconventional
approach to being a superstar rock group refreshing. "One thing I like about
them, and Eddie especially, is that they maintain their credibility," the
former Ramones bandmember said. Ramone contributed vocals to Pearl Jam's
live version of the punk classic "Sonic Reducer" on a 1995 Pearl Jam fan
club single, Vedder made a cameo appearance at the Ramones' final show in
1996 and members of both groups have since remained close.

"Two years from now, it's pretty open as to what kind of music we could be
playing together." - Stone Gossard
"Pearl Jam understand the word integrity," Ramone said.

Friend and fellow Seattle rocker Mark Arm of Mudhoney said he saw that
strong vision more than a decade ago in pals Gossard and Ament. "They were
involved with the hardcore punk scene [and] the whole DIY ethic was very
much a part of what [Ament] was doing," Arm said. "Both guys took an active
interest in what their bands were doing and where they were going. By they
time they started working with major labels, they had a pretty clear idea of
what they wanted and weren't about to give up control."

"Comfortable In Our Skin"

As the interview unfolds it becomes clear that, in addition to Vedder and
Gossard's agreement on the importance of integrity and creative control, the
pair's easy give-and-take and shared sense of humor have seen them through
some tough times.

Sonicnet: Is it easier to be an artist now than it was earlier in your
career?

Gossard: I think we're more comfortable in our skin these days. Just in
terms of our relationships with each other, and the fact that we all feel
like we're not all going to fall off the edge of a cliff in two weeks - we
have a couple months. [Vedder and Gossard laugh.]

Sonicnet: What do you mean?

Gossard: Well, it was just a very high, volatile time when we first started
making music together. We didn't know each other very well, and over 10
years, we've really gotten to know each other better and become at least
generally more accepting of each other. I think we all look back and feel
pretty fortunate that we have a band together, and that we make records the
way we want to make them, and that we don't have to do a million interviews,
and we kind of set ourselves up in a pretty cool way to just make records
for the next 10 years, or however long we do it.

Sonicnet: How do you think you've done it? I look not just at your peers
from Seattle, but anyone who's on your level and has been around for as long
as you have. How is it that you're able to maintain so much control over
your career?

Gossard: We just look at guys like Neil Young. In the early '70s, mid-'70s,
how huge he was. ... He went away, then kind of came back, and all of a
sudden he's got this catalog of friggin' 60 records, or however many records
he put out. ... That's what you aim for - the ability to make a bunch of
records and look back on it a long time from now and see the arc of that
career, that that group had significance.

Vedder: I'm sure there were times when it might have seemed easier to
surrender and just stop, because there is some madness involved every once
in awhile. For me, it was [being] driven to still make better records. I
just wasn't willing to stop yet. I'm still not. ... Actually, maybe this
one. ... [laughs]

Sonicnet: Do you need each other to do that?

Vedder: Well, yeah, I think so. I mean, no matter what, even if we were to
separate, or if we do separate, those records will never be listened to like
these. Now a certain kind of legacy is involved, I'm fortunate enough to
say. That's the work that people are going to respond to. And I just felt
like we still needed to do better. That's just me personally.

Gossard: I think everyone in the band is driven to say, "That was a cool
record. That was a cool record." But two years from now, it's pretty open as
to what kind of music we could be playing together.

Put Your Words In My Mouth

Binaural brings with it Pearl Jam's fourth drummer in six studio albums.
Matt Cameron played on Pearl Jam's early demos before being replaced by Dave
Krusen, who appeared on Ten. Krusen, in turn, was replaced by Dave
Abbruzzese, who hung around for Vs. and Vitalogy and who paved the way for
former Red Hot Chili Peppers drummer Jack Irons. Irons performed on No Code
and Yield. Citing health issues, Irons stopped touring and recording with
the band, making room for Cameron to step back in after a decade-long
absence.

Vedder and Gossard say Cameron has brought with him not just a booming sound
but also a spirit that has rejuvenated the band's songwriting process. The
drummer's muscular playing on the band's 1998 album, Live on Two Legs, and
his songwriting on Binaural's blistering punk-rock tune "Evacuation," bodes
well for his reintegration into the group, according to Vedder.

Sonicnet: Is it hard for you to sing someone else's lyrics?
Vedder: Right now they're good, so it's really easy. No, I'm impressed.

Sonicnet: Despite the fact that you're all writing songs, a lot of these
tracks have this similar, poetic meter to them. How do you achieve that kind
of consistency with so many voices?

Gossard: Me and Jeff [Ament] have been ripping Ed off, so it all blends
together. [laughs]

"My only question to Stone on "Thin Air" is, 'Do you want to sing it?'" -
Eddie Vedder
Vedder: No wonder I like it. That's good. [laughs]

Sonicnet: Do you have to ask them where they get inspired? Do you need to
know what the song's about?
Vedder: I might ask them a little bit. My only question to Stone on "Thin
Air" is, "Do you want to sing it?"
Gossard: Every night? No.
Vedder: Actually, when he said yes, I was pretty happy. I turned around and
said, "Yeah! Great!"

Gossard: You don't know what it's like to be in a band with a singer that's
open to looking at somebody else's songs and saying there's value in that.
That's what gives life to this band, and what will sustain it, the idea that
if everybody just writes two to three good songs a year. And usually it's
the ones you don't even think that anyone will respond to that everyone
responds to.

You come in with your A-list, and you think, "I got this one surefire." But,
by the end of the day, everyone is like, "You know that one on the second
side? That kinda weird one? That's the one we should do." That's great.
That's such a great process - to be in a collaboration where people are
pulling stuff, and responding to your music in a way that you don't expect.

Vedder: And that reggae one that you really like? How can I do that one?
[laughs]

Time To Dig In Our Heels, Again

Now 10 years and more than 20 million albums into their career, the band is
still finding ways to rebel. These days, some of that rebellion is channeled
into the way they buck music industry conventions.

Since 1994's Vitalogy, Pearl Jam have typically released unconventional
songs as first singles - including the dirgelike "Who You Are" (No Code) and
the explosive "Given to Fly" (Yield) - rather than offering the album's more
accessible, singalong tracks.

Vedder says the band's fans appreciate the effort.

"It actually felt like we were offering them something fairly challenging,"
Vedder says of Binaural's first radio track, the brooding "Nothing As It
Seems."

Sonicnet: Did "Nothing As It Seems" ever strike you as an odd choice for
introducing the album to people?

Vedder: Those are interesting conversations. Because after you make the
record and you're ready to display it publicly, and then the first single
comes out before the record, then it becomes a strange conversation. ...
There's a bit of manipulation going on there, what you would like people to
hear. At that point, you try to do it for a few minutes, there's a few
back-and-forths. ... To me it starts getting a bit ridiculous. It seems
like, in a way, you're trying to fool people. The record company would like
the absolute singalong, the immediate melody.

Sonicnet: Something like "Alive"?

Gossard: Which not a lot of people thought was a great single when we
released it ... "Alive" ... I don't think that the record company thought it
was a slam-dunk. They went, "Oh! This seems like the best one so far." I
think there was a lot of confusion about that. That just shows that when you
go with your gut instincts, at least you're making your own mistakes or
you're doing your own thing. With that song, we talked about four other
songs, and then, all of a sudden, someone said what about "Nothing As It
Seems"? And we all went, "That'll work, let's do that!" We just agreed on it
and we dug in our heels and said that's what you're going to get.

Vedder: With that one we felt like we could do that and we weren't trying to
fool people. It actually felt like we were offering them something fairly
challenging. We obviously respect the audience.

Sonicnet: You seem to respect your fans. Is that a big part of how this band
operates?

Vedder: That's what I think we all feel when we're an audience, whether as a
theatergoer or seeing films or reading. I'm insulted when I'm not respected
as an audience member.

Now That's The Eddie They Came To See

"Progress ... laced with ... ramifications," Vedder sings in "Grievance,"
the words like lyrical hammers wielded against unseen enemies. One verse
later, his voice takes on a hint of weary resignation as he moans, "For
every tool they lend us/ A loss of independence." But just as you fear he's
lost the battle, the singer rallies with, " 'Cause you don't give blood/
Then take it back again." In the end, he collapses in a punch-drunk heap as
he sings, "I feel alive/ As long as I'm free."

Vedder says those lines, which he wrote, are not about the band.

"The record company would like the absolute singalong, the immediate
melody." - Eddie Vedder
Rather, they're about governmental and corporate manipulation of the
consumer. "I was talking about interest rates," he deadpans, letting out a
throaty laugh. The Dow Jones and NASDAQ had crashed just days before.

Then Vedder launches into a monologue about corporate welfare, sounding not
unlike the anarchists who trashed his hometown during November's World Trade
Organization riots.

"It's the corporate welfare and paying and subsidizing and bonusing
mergers," Vedder says, his brow wrinkling.

"It's interesting because we've got an election here, and everyone has a
platform on welfare to people where we'll give them a certain amount, but
then cut them off after five years. But that's small potatoes compared to
corporate welfare, where they're subsidizing McDonald's who, I'm sure, has
plenty of dough at this point."

Vedder's discussion touches on everything from subsidizing McDonald's
outlets in Singapore to his anger at what he says were million-dollar
tax-payer-supported bonus payments for Martin-Marietta executives and
questions about where presidential candidates George W. Bush and Vice
President Al Gore stand on these issues.

I decide to hold off on questioning the "champagne breakfast for everyone"
line from "Grievance" as a comment on Pearl Jam's lavish rock-star
lifestyle.

They've Got The Biggest Balls Of Them All

There's a knock on the door. It's locked.
"It's funny that it is, isn't it?" Gossard says.
"One more question," the band's publicist shouts from the other side.
"What is it?" Gossard asks innocently.
"No, for him," Vedder says.
"Oh," Gossard nods.
"What's your favorite love song of all time?"

Gossard thinks for a minute then names "All Night Thing" by Temple of the
Dog, the grunge supergroup he was a member of in the early '90s.

Vedder is silent. He appears to be thinking it over. Or maybe he's just
ignoring the question until someone scares up a key to unlock the door and
he can avoid answering it. I turn to walk out of the room.

"Big Balls," he blurts just before the door swings closed, grinning a
sideways grin. "By AC/DC. Yeah, that's the one."